Letterboxing USA - Yahoo Groups Archive

Two Schools of Thought...

19 messages in this thread | Started on 2004-05-14

Two Schools of Thought...

From: Deb (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) | Date: 2004-05-14 22:18:56 UTC
There seem to be two schools of thought here... I really hate to
draw a line between "new letterboxers" and "not so new letterboxers"
because I think we all are looking to learn new things and share new
experiences, it's just that each group is looking for something
different.

It only stands to reason that many of the newer members enjoy seeing
the posts with the questions that have been asked and answered a
million times -- they have the same questions. Often their primary
reason for reading the list is to learn about letterboxing and share
things with others of like mind.

On the other hand, it also is logical that many of the "not so new
letterboxers" (not to be confused with experts, because really we
don't claim to be) are easily exasperated with seeing the same posts
over and over -- to the point that many, many of them do not even
frequent the list any longer. Somebody mentioned that there are
1600 users, but only about 10% ever post. I daresay 50% of the
registered users on this list check in less than once a month. Not
that they have stopped letterboxing -- just that they no longer find
anything useful to them here and go about participation in the hobby
without the social aspect of the list, or find that in the many
regional lists that have sprouted from this list. Those of us who
do still hang around here on occasion do so looking for something
that is getting harder and harder to find -- exchange of
letterboxing ideas with others who have been through some of the
same experiences as us -- generally on a different level than most
of the newbie posts.

For a long time this was very much an underground kind of game --
new players learned by word of mouth or by a very infrequent
newpaper article. A few made their way to the list and were
diligent enough to educate themselves about the hobby and are still
around. Most didn't have the dedication or lost interest or became
frustrated because nobody would help them solve Mapsurfer clues or
the Dancing Men and left. Just as, I daresay, a good majority of
the newbies who post at present will do within the next 6 months.
But with the deluge of articles in local newspapers, homeschooling
and family fun magazines over the past year, the whole face of this
game has changed drastically and the original flavor significantly
diluted.

Since there seems to be two distinct groups of letterboxers, perhaps
there should be two lists... One where newbies are free to post
questions that are easily answered in the FAQ and tell tales of
little Timmy's first trip to the woods, and help each other with
clues that the rest of us would rather figure out on our own.
Another where letterboxers who have weathered a number of
finds/plants and have had some experience with (not necessarily
mastered) the game can communicate on the same level with others who
play the game as they do. Perhaps making this a closed group where
one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain number
of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain length of
time and/or nominated by somebody who was aready a member...

You can't please everyone and perhaps the real problem here is that
there are two different perspectives (actually I am sure there are
hundreds, but loosely grouped, I think there are two sides to the
coin). Why keep fighting over ownership of the one list?

Just an idea... (trying to be part of the solution, not the
problem).

SpringChick


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: bcostley (bobbyeubanks@yahoo.com) | Date: 2004-05-14 23:00:23 UTC
I think by default, clues are beginning to split into two anyways,
those easily found on letterboxing.org and those that find you or
that you at least have to seek out. I myself have begun playing
around with and thinking about the latter, and have found it an
intriguing and a worthy variation. Solving such a clue can be quite
satisfing. Indeed, sometimes even just realizing something is
(unexpectedly) a clue is a rush. As someone with little time to
search for boxes, I especially appreciate these special boxes - even
those I likely will never get to seek out. Of course published
and/or easy clues will always have their place for many reasons.

But the question posed is whether the list should experience a
similar dichotomy. Ideally I say no but this is no ideal world. The
suggestion merits friendly debate. I keep a mental list of members
whose posts I always read. Sadly, while that list has grown in size,
the number of posts has dwindled. Some wonderful folks rarely or
never post anymore - to the loss of everyone on the list. Something
needs to change. Can we figure out how?

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" wrote:
> There seem to be two schools of thought here... I really hate to
> draw a line between "new letterboxers" and "not so new
letterboxers"
> because I think we all are looking to learn new things and share
new
> experiences, it's just that each group is looking for something
> different.




RE: [LbNA] Two Schools of Thought...

From: ruby (celticlions@comcast.net) | Date: 2004-05-14 18:24:38 UTC-05:00
Springchick wrote:

< there should be two lists...... Perhaps making this a closed group
where one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain
number of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain length
of time and/or nominated by somebody who was already a member..>>

While I respect and admire your brainstorming to find a solution, I hope
you'll allow that it may not be so easy to divide letterboxers into two
groups;-)
I'm a brand new letterboxer who lives in an area of the country where
boxes are few and far between (I read longingly of the high density in
Connecticut!!!)and the few boxes within a day's drive are apparently
missing.
Before I joined this group I read everything I could find about the
subject and the minute I joined I poured through the archives.

Re: [LbNA] Two Schools of Thought...

From: (HomemakingMommy@aol.com) | Date: 2004-05-14 20:29:26 UTC-04:00
In a message dated 5/14/2004 5:21:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
springchick@letterbox-mi.com writes:

One where newbies are free to post
questions that are easily answered in the FAQ and tell tales of
little Timmy's first trip to the woods, and help each other with
clues that the rest of us would rather figure out on our own.
====================
Then maybe just delete the emails you don't want to read. The Subject line
gives a good idea of whats in the email.


Another where letterboxers who have weathered a number of
finds/plants and have had some experience with (not necessarily
mastered) the game can communicate on the same level with others who
play the game as they do. Perhaps making this a closed group where
one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain number
of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain length of
time and/or nominated by somebody who was aready a member...
=================
There's no way I would ever be able to get to join this group. There are
three letterboxes in my area. The others are way to far away for just a day
trip. The hobby is new to my area. Yes there are a bunch of us newbies that
ask alot of questions but then just direct whoever to the site they need or
delete the email. I love hearing about the more experienced letterboxers and
their stories. I also love getting ideas and insparation from them. It would
be a pity to not have that on a group. Imagine an bunch of newbies trying
to answer others questions. LOL!
:)
Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: moghedian2000 (moghedian2000@cox.net) | Date: 2004-05-15 00:31:33 UTC
Ah...Dancing Men. I made copies of it, brought it in to work one
4th of July and passed it around and said "These are directions to a
Mystery Box, can you help me decipher it?".
"What's a mystery box?"
Then I explained what it is we do on our days off.... It was a
slow and uneventful day and by the end of it, I/we, with help from
my fellow workers, had a good idea where to start.
Personally, I tend to visit the list at least once a day but
rarely post at all. I enjoy reading the different posts, paying
special attention to the ones near RI. We found our first
letterboxes on 7-17-02. I don't know what that "makes" us. All I
know is that letterboxing "makes" us a happier couple.
What's the point? ..Letterboxing makes us happy..I read the list
and rarely post...I hope to improve my carving skills....A walk in
the woods is fun....We met Pete and Wanda a few weeks ago.....and I
guess that's that and I'll withdraw and return to lurker status.



Re: [LbNA] Two Schools of Thought...

From: Deb (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 09:40:02 UTC
I feel for you. There were 3 letterboxes in my area when I started
letterboxing. Guess it just depends how bad you want it. You are
barking up the wrong tree with that line.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, HomemakingMommy@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/14/2004 5:21:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
> springchick@l... writes:
>
> One where newbies are free to post
> questions that are easily answered in the FAQ and tell tales of
> little Timmy's first trip to the woods, and help each other with
> clues that the rest of us would rather figure out on our own.
> ====================
> Then maybe just delete the emails you don't want to read. The
Subject line
> gives a good idea of whats in the email.
>
>
> Another where letterboxers who have weathered a number of
> finds/plants and have had some experience with (not necessarily
> mastered) the game can communicate on the same level with others
who
> play the game as they do. Perhaps making this a closed group
where
> one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain
number
> of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain length
of
> time and/or nominated by somebody who was aready a member...
> =================
> There's no way I would ever be able to get to join this group.
There are
> three letterboxes in my area. The others are way to far away for
just a day
> trip. The hobby is new to my area. Yes there are a bunch of us
newbies that
> ask alot of questions but then just direct whoever to the site
they need or
> delete the email. I love hearing about the more experienced
letterboxers and
> their stories. I also love getting ideas and insparation from
them. It would
> be a pity to not have that on a group. Imagine an bunch of
newbies trying
> to answer others questions. LOL!
> :)
> Shannon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Two Schools of Thought...

From: (Gurudybaker@aol.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 06:44:21 UTC-04:00
Don't close the group. We need to learn from one another . We all need the
encouragement & enthuisam of others. I learned by doing & reading & others on
this site.

STAR:W+SD=DRR


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: moonsunmagik (moonsunmagik@yahoo.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 12:48:37 UTC
Nice! So much for being "part of the solution". You know, maybe
there SHOULD be a separate list for "newbies", if only to shield
them from the elitism and arrogance of certain "not so new"
letterboxers. "Barking up the wrong tree", indeed!

Everyone on this list was new at one point. If all were greeted to
this game with this sort of fanfare, then there wouldn't be a game.

Kate and I have been 'boxing for a year (as of the 17th of this
month), and in that time we've managed to place our share of boxes.
To see the signature stamp of a "newbie" in our log books is a
genuine thrill to us because it could possibly mean the taking root
of the game in our state, and maybe even the proliferation of boxes
for us to find as well. They say "the more the merrier" and in this
case that is true.

As far as I see it, the "problem", if indeed there is one, is easily
solved with the pressing of the "delete" button, or the scanning of
a subject line.

I don't usually toss my two cents into a maelstrom, but this sort of
discourse tends to give "not so new" boxers a bad image.

Melinda

--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Deb" wrote:
> I feel for you. There were 3 letterboxes in my area when I
started
> letterboxing. Guess it just depends how bad you want it. You are
> barking up the wrong tree with that line.
>
> SpringChick
>
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, HomemakingMommy@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/14/2004 5:21:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > springchick@l... writes:
> >
> > One where newbies are free to post
> > questions that are easily answered in the FAQ and tell tales of
> > little Timmy's first trip to the woods, and help each other
with
> > clues that the rest of us would rather figure out on our own.
> > ====================
> > Then maybe just delete the emails you don't want to read. The
> Subject line
> > gives a good idea of whats in the email.
> >
> >
> > Another where letterboxers who have weathered a number of
> > finds/plants and have had some experience with (not necessarily
> > mastered) the game can communicate on the same level with others
> who
> > play the game as they do. Perhaps making this a closed group
> where
> > one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain
> number
> > of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain
length
> of
> > time and/or nominated by somebody who was aready a member...
> > =================
> > There's no way I would ever be able to get to join this group.
> There are
> > three letterboxes in my area. The others are way to far away
for
> just a day
> > trip. The hobby is new to my area. Yes there are a bunch of
us
> newbies that
> > ask alot of questions but then just direct whoever to the site
> they need or
> > delete the email. I love hearing about the more experienced
> letterboxers and
> > their stories. I also love getting ideas and insparation from
> them. It would
> > be a pity to not have that on a group. Imagine an bunch of
> newbies trying
> > to answer others questions. LOL!
> > :)
> > Shannon
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: SpringChick (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 13:30:18 UTC
I am sorry you feel that way. I think you read way more into my
post than what was intended. I was simply saying that I find the
lack of letterboxes in an area to be a lousy excuse for not
letterboxing. There are two ways to play this game -- as a hunter
and a planter. To hunt you are dependent on the boxes placed by
others and are indeed at a disadvantage if you live in a letterbox-
deprived location. As a planter you are dependent only on your own
initiative and actually have a huge opportunity before you if you
live in a letterbox-deprived area.

It has nothing to do with elitism or being new -- it has to do with
your zest for the game. It is an equal-opportunity choice.
Speaking as one who was faced with the disappointment of only having
3 boxes in my area when I first started letterboxing (the nearest
being about 2 hours away), I view a void of area boxes as an
unacceptable excuse.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "moonsunmagik"
wrote:
> Nice! So much for being "part of the solution". You know, maybe
> there SHOULD be a separate list for "newbies", if only to shield
> them from the elitism and arrogance of certain "not so new"
> letterboxers. "Barking up the wrong tree", indeed!
>
> Everyone on this list was new at one point. If all were greeted
to
> this game with this sort of fanfare, then there wouldn't be a
game.
>
> Kate and I have been 'boxing for a year (as of the 17th of this
> month), and in that time we've managed to place our share of
boxes.
> To see the signature stamp of a "newbie" in our log books is a
> genuine thrill to us because it could possibly mean the taking
root
> of the game in our state, and maybe even the proliferation of
boxes
> for us to find as well. They say "the more the merrier" and in
this
> case that is true.
>
> As far as I see it, the "problem", if indeed there is one, is
easily
> solved with the pressing of the "delete" button, or the scanning
of
> a subject line.
>
> I don't usually toss my two cents into a maelstrom, but this sort
of
> discourse tends to give "not so new" boxers a bad image.
>
> Melinda
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Deb"
wrote:
> > I feel for you. There were 3 letterboxes in my area when I
> started
> > letterboxing. Guess it just depends how bad you want it. You
are
> > barking up the wrong tree with that line.
> >
> > SpringChick
> >
> >
> > --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, HomemakingMommy@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 5/14/2004 5:21:09 PM Central Daylight
Time,
> > > springchick@l... writes:
> > >
> > > One where newbies are free to post
> > > questions that are easily answered in the FAQ and tell tales
of
> > > little Timmy's first trip to the woods, and help each other
> with
> > > clues that the rest of us would rather figure out on our own.
> > > ====================
> > > Then maybe just delete the emails you don't want to read. The
> > Subject line
> > > gives a good idea of whats in the email.
> > >
> > >
> > > Another where letterboxers who have weathered a number of
> > > finds/plants and have had some experience with (not
necessarily
> > > mastered) the game can communicate on the same level with
others
> > who
> > > play the game as they do. Perhaps making this a closed group
> > where
> > > one would be required to have found and/or planted a certain
> > number
> > > of boxes or been participating in the hobby for a certain
> length
> > of
> > > time and/or nominated by somebody who was aready a member...
> > > =================
> > > There's no way I would ever be able to get to join this
group.
> > There are
> > > three letterboxes in my area. The others are way to far away
> for
> > just a day
> > > trip. The hobby is new to my area. Yes there are a bunch of
> us
> > newbies that
> > > ask alot of questions but then just direct whoever to the site
> > they need or
> > > delete the email. I love hearing about the more experienced
> > letterboxers and
> > > their stories. I also love getting ideas and insparation
from
> > them. It would
> > > be a pity to not have that on a group. Imagine an bunch of
> > newbies trying
> > > to answer others questions. LOL!
> > > :)
> > > Shannon
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: (HomemakingMommy@aol.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 15:13:14 UTC-04:00
In a message dated 5/15/2004 8:36:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
springchick@letterbox-mi.com writes:

Speaking as one who was faced with the disappointment of only having
3 boxes in my area when I first started letterboxing (the nearest
being about 2 hours away), I view a void of area boxes as an
unacceptable excuse.
========
Wow thats an unacceptable excuse? What kind of excuse are you talking
about? That was me who posted that.
Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[LbNA] Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: SpringChick (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 19:58:36 UTC
The game is what you make it.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, HomemakingMommy@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 5/15/2004 8:36:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
> springchick@l... writes:
>
> Speaking as one who was faced with the disappointment of only
having
> 3 boxes in my area when I first started letterboxing (the nearest
> being about 2 hours away), I view a void of area boxes as an
> unacceptable excuse.
> ========
> Wow thats an unacceptable excuse? What kind of excuse are you
talking
> about? That was me who posted that.
> Shannon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Two Schools of Thought...

From: Carlos Brimer (wildhawk@blomand.net) | Date: 2004-05-15 15:12:14 UTC-05:00

Maybe so, but other people have the power to make it more enjoyable or less
so, I think you have voted for the less so.

You know letterboxing just isn't that much fun anymore, not on this list
anyway.

Wildhawk



> The game is what you make it.
>
> SpringChick
>


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: SpringChick (springchick@letterbox-mi.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 20:32:21 UTC
I tend to be a person who does not let other people have the power
to determine my enjoyment of something I do.

I enjoy letterboxing immensely and I trust that my decision not to
sit back and wait for other people to plant letterboxes so I could
be a letterbox finder has made the hobby enjoyable for many other
letterboxers.

Sorry we don't see it the same way, but you are entitled to yours,
as I am entitled to mine. And with that, I am agreeing to disagree -
- hopefully you can do the same.

SpringChick


--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Brimer
wrote:
>
> Maybe so, but other people have the power to make it more
enjoyable or less
> so, I think you have voted for the less so.
>
> You know letterboxing just isn't that much fun anymore, not on
this list
> anyway.
>
> Wildhawk
>
>
>
> > The game is what you make it.
> >
> > SpringChick
> >


Re: [LbNA] Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: Carlos Brimer (wildhawk@blomand.net) | Date: 2004-05-15 16:10:55 UTC-05:00

So be it, I will agree to disagree, and Thank You Spring Chick. That one
statement makes me feel a lot better about letterboxing and recent events.

Wishing You Well,

Wildhawk



> Sorry we don't see it the same way, but you are entitled to yours,
> as I am entitled to mine. And with that, I am agreeing to disagree -
> - hopefully you can do the same.
>
> SpringChick
>


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: Phyto (phyto_me@yahoo.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 22:07:22 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Carlos Brimer wrote:

> You know letterboxing just isn't that much fun anymore, not on this list
> anyway.


Dude! letterboxing rocks, this is just a talk list. Get off yer butt and go box.




Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: borg008 (wildhawk@blomand.net) | Date: 2004-05-15 22:52:33 UTC

You have a point Phyto, I will however have to hide a few more boxes
because I'm one of those people who have very few letterboxes close
by.

Were talking maybe 10 boxes, last I checked, within a 100 miles or so
of where I live and of that 1 is MIA, 1 I hid, and I have found 3 of
them.

Anyway, I don't get to Nashville, Tn, much, (and when I do I usually
don't end where the boxes are for one reason or another), so well you
can see where this is going.

On a brighter note, I have been scouting places to hide more boxes,
but I just haven't had a lot of time lately to work on it.

I geuss I will have to try harder, but that's life sometimes.

Wildhawk



"Phyto" wrote:
>>
>
> Dude! letterboxing rocks, this is just a talk list. Get off yer
butt and go box.


Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: Phyto (phyto_me@yahoo.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 23:00:38 UTC
Wildhawk

"if you plant them...they will come!"

Enjoy your weekend,
Phyto :-)


Re: [LbNA] Re: Two Schools of Thought...

From: (HomemakingMommy@aol.com) | Date: 2004-05-15 22:13:44 UTC-04:00
> Speaking as one who was faced with the disappointment of only
having
> 3 boxes in my area when I first started letterboxing (the nearest
> being about 2 hours away), I view a void of area boxes as an
> unacceptable excuse.
> ========
> Wow thats an unacceptable excuse? What kind of excuse are you
talking
> about? That was me who posted that.

The game is what you make it.

SpringChick

==========
I was refering to the idea of the list that you might have to have a certain
number of found boxes to join. I don't have the opprtunity to leave for
weekends at a time to drive to another state to find boxes. That why I thought
that "school of thought" might not work for everyone. It wasn't an excuse.
:)
Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [LbNA] Two Schools of Thought...

From: (HomemakingMommy@aol.com) | Date: 2004-05-16 15:50:38 UTC-04:00
In a message dated 5/15/2004 4:57:16 AM Central Daylight Time,
springchick@letterbox-mi.com writes:

Guess it just depends how bad you want it. You are
barking up the wrong tree with that line.

==========
Why are you being snippy? I was jsut trying to explain another point of
view. Not start an
arguement.
If my email address doesn't explain that for you enough. Homemakingmommy.
Its alittle bit harder for me to travel for a few days distance with small
children. Most of the time alone since my husband tends to deploy alot.
Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]